????我們正在采用新的支付方式,，這一點已經很明顯了,。我們會用打車應用Uber支付出租車費，在Facebook上為個人定制產品結賬，把電影下載到我們的亞馬遜（Amazon）Kindle平板電腦上——而不用從錢包里抽出塑料信用卡?，F(xiàn)在,，肯?切諾特要確保讓美國運通（American Express）在每筆交易中都占據中心地位。

????紐約Mobile-First峰會期間,，我與這位首席執(zhí)行官坐在一起,，討論了移動支付的未來。以下是我們談話的內容概要,，為了表述清晰,，對話經過了一定編輯。

????《財富》：美國運通在移動領域的機遇有多大,？

????切諾特：移動產品重新定義了線上和線下的商業(yè)活動,。移動商務在電子商務中所占的比例大約是0.09%（編者注：即意味著電子商務只有不到1%的交易是通過移動設備完成的）。但到2017年,，這個比例預計將達到26%,，這還只是它在電子商務領域的滲透程度。

????這說的只是電子商務,。我們什么時候才能不再區(qū)分電子或非電子商務,，而簡單地把它們都視為商務呢？

????一個巨大的機遇正在出現(xiàn),。移動設備會重新定義商業(yè)方式,。史蒂夫?喬布斯重新定義了零售體驗。我認為,，商務和移動設備將會以指數增長的形式帶來更加具有革命性的變化,。初創(chuàng)公司有機會重新定義移動設備的力量，這真是不可思議,。業(yè)務規(guī)模很重要,，不過如果你有點子，你現(xiàn)在就可以聯(lián)系那些能夠驅動這種規(guī)模的公司,。顯然,，現(xiàn)在有五大平臺將會扮演舉足輕重的角色，成為強大的力量：亞馬遜（Amazon）,、蘋果（Apple）、谷歌（Google）,、Facebook和阿里巴巴（Alibaba）,。越來越多的初創(chuàng)公司將會與這些服務商合作，從而迅速擴大自己的規(guī)模,。

????競爭格局將會發(fā)生什么變化,？

????我認為，要明白支付業(yè)和商務即將經歷翻天覆地的變化,，這一點十分重要,。大家正目睹著商務,、移動設備和支付的界限日益模糊，線上和線下也開始整合,。短期內,，塑料信用卡并不會被淘汰。大家會看到支付公司之間產生分化,。有些公司會維持現(xiàn)狀,，他們會專注于推動支付行業(yè)的發(fā)展。但這是錯誤的,。他們最后會退化成一種商品,。還會有一些公司將會注重全部的商業(yè)流程，我們就是其中之一,。

????我來給你舉個例子,，告訴你支付行業(yè)已經發(fā)生的改變：Uber已經改變了支付的形式。那些基本的東西沒有改變,，但是這種體驗是順暢無縫的,，你甚至都不知道你已經完成了支付。

????我們擁有最大的集成式全球支付平臺,。我們讓用戶,、持卡者和商人聚在了一起，他們的數據具有無與倫比的價值,。我們知道他們在哪里進行線上和線下消費,。無論我們的持卡者希望在何時何地、用何種方式獲得我們提供的實惠和服務,，我們都希望能滿足他們的需求,。

????我們談談Uber吧。我用過它,，今天早上我用谷歌地圖導航到這個會場,，發(fā)現(xiàn)谷歌地圖可以讓我選擇使用Uber。作為一名消費者,，我同時接觸到谷歌品牌和Uber品牌,。是的，我是用與Uber賬戶關聯(lián)的美國運通卡付的錢,，但是我沒有看到美國運通的商標,。這對運通來說是好是壞？

????對我們來說,，這是一件好事,，因為總之我們有一個廣為人知的可靠品牌……“我想成為錢包中信用卡的第一選擇”，和“我想讓美國運通成為我的默認選擇”，這個區(qū)別并不大,。關鍵在于我們要提供實惠,、服務和創(chuàng)新，來保證我們成為錢包中信用卡的首選,。

????所以你談的是交易和你所說的“過程”之間的區(qū)別,。那個過程中包含什么？

????這就是關鍵點,。我們可以注意一下移動設備的使用情況,，在購物過程中使用移動設備的顧客購買東西的可能性會提高40%。想想人們會如何利用信息,，如何參考他們從社交媒體網站上獲得的推薦,。關鍵在于了解商務過程中不同的元素。我們希望與我們的顧客同在,。我們想要以顧客希望的方式為他們提供便利和實惠,。這其實就是我在公司內部的一個關鍵理念：在這個環(huán)境中，要么創(chuàng)新,，要么等死,。我們要做不僅僅是盈利。

????訣竅之一是看看潮流的方向,，從而理解系統(tǒng)性的變化,。數碼錢包風靡過嗎？2011年,，谷歌和Square等公司發(fā)布了這項功能,。到2014年，在這方面的許多努力都沒有奏效,，人們還在不斷嘗試,。數碼錢包是不是已經宣告死亡了？

????我沒覺得它們消亡了,，不過你可以回顧我在2011年公開說過的話,，我覺得這種錢包沒有找到合適的價值定位。通過輕觸屏幕來付款,？這能真正解決什么難題呢,？我能得到什么好處呢？在購物過程中,，它幫到了我什么,？總而言之，數碼錢包的失敗,，在于它們沒有專注于解決消費者的需求。

????We are paying for things in new ways; that much is clear. We're paying for taxi rides using our Uber app, checking out personally tailored offers on Facebook, and downloading films to our Amazon Kindles -- without ever pulling the plastic out of our wallets. Yet Ken Chenault plans to insure that American Express (AXP) remains in the center of every transaction.

????At the Mobile-First Summit in New York, I sat down with the chief executive to discuss the future of mobile payments. Below is a condensed version of our conversation, edited for clarity.

????Fortune: What is the scope of the mobile opportunity for American？

????Chenault: Mobile is redefining both online and offline commerce. The penetration of m-commerce in e-commerce was around 0.09% [Meaning that less than one percent of e-commerce transactions happened on mobile devices --Ed.]. By 2017, it's projected to be at 26% and that's just penetration in e-commerce.

????That's just e-commerce. When will we stop breaking it out and talk simply about commerce?

????What's happening is a gigantic opportunity. Mobile will redefine how commerce is done. Steve Jobs redefined the retail experience. I think commerce and mobile will do an even more transformational job in an exponential way. The opportunity for startups to redefine the power of mobile is incredible. Scale is important, but if you have the idea, you now have the ability to connect with companies that can drive that scale. Clearly there are five platforms that will play an important role and be very powerful: Amazon (AMZN), Apple (AAPL), Google (GOOG), Facebook (FB), and Alibaba. More and more, startups will be able to connect to these services to scale quickly.

????How does the competitive landscape change?

????I think it's important to understand the payments industry and commerce is going through fundamental change. You are seeing a blurring of commerce, mobile, payments, and a convergence of online and offline. In the near term, plastic is not going to go away. You are going to see a demarcation between payment companies. There are going to be those that stay in the status quo, and they're going to focus on facilitating payments. That is a mistake. They will be reduced to a commodity. There will be those companies who will focus on the entire commerce journey, and that's us.

????I'll give you one example of how payments has changed: Uber has changed payments. Infrastructure hasn't changed at all, but the experience is frictionless and seamless, and you don't even know you're consummating a payment.

????We have the largest integrated global payments platform. We bring together users, card members, and merchants, and the data is incredibly valuable. We know where they spend online and offline. We want to deliver benefits and services when our card members want it, where, and how they want it.

????Let's talk about Uber. I use it, and just noticed this morning that when I pulled up Google Maps to get directions to this venue, the app offered me the option to call Uber. As a consumer, I was dealing with the Google brand and the Uber brand. Yes, I made the payment on my American Express card, which is linked to my Uber account, but the AmEx brand didn't come into my line of sight. Is that a good or a bad thing for AmEx?

????For us it's a good thing because at the end of the day we have a well-known and trusted brand ... here's not much of a difference between saying I want to be the first card in the wallet and saying I want to have AmEx as my default option. What is critical is the benefits, services, and innovation we provide so we're the first card in the wallet.

????So you're talking about the difference between the transaction and what you call "the journey." What's involved in that journey?

????Here's what's key. If we look at how mobile devices are used, people who use mobile devices in the shoppers' journey are 40% more likely to convert to sales. Think about how people use information, how they leverage recommendations they get from social media sites. The key is to understand the different elements of the commerce journey. We want to be where our customers are. We want to deliver them benefits in the way they want to have those benefits presented to them. It goes back to a key message I give in my organization: This is an environment where you innovate or die. We want to be the company that will put us out of business.

????Part of that is looking beyond the trends to understand systematic change. Were digital wallets a fad? In 2011, companies like Google and Square launched them. In 2014, many of those efforts haven't worked and are being retried. Are digital wallets dead?

????I don't think they're dead, but if you go back to what I said publicly in 2011, I didn't think these wallets met a value proposition. I'm going to tap to pay? What's the friction that it's really solving? What are the benefits that I'm getting? How is that helping me in my shopping journey? At the end of the day, the failure of wallets was not being focused enough on customer needs.