位于瑞士巴塞爾的諾華耗資10億美元,，在上海新開了一家研發(fā)機(jī)構(gòu),。這是公司第三家大型 藥物開發(fā)中心，另外兩家分別在美國(guó)馬薩諸塞州坎布里奇和瑞士巴塞爾,。

諾華的這一舉措表明,，中國(guó)可能在研發(fā)救命藥物方面發(fā)揮新的作用。10年前，諾華這樣的公司被吸引到中國(guó),，主要是因?yàn)橹袊?guó)科研人員的薪水只有美國(guó)科研人員的十分之一,。今天，由于中國(guó)的新興中產(chǎn)階級(jí)對(duì)健康上的支出不斷增加,，以及中國(guó)培養(yǎng)的科學(xué)家人數(shù)超過了其他任何國(guó)家,，諾華不得不投巨資于中國(guó)，盡管面臨不少挑戰(zhàn),。

挑戰(zhàn)之一是政府對(duì)藥價(jià)的壓力,。在中國(guó)，處方藥占到醫(yī)療支出總額的40%（美國(guó)只有 15%）,，因此中國(guó)政府為了削減成本,，更青睞仿制藥。

中國(guó)在藥物研發(fā)上也落后于世界,，還存在制度障礙,，比如新藥的注冊(cè)流程緩慢。中國(guó)的新藥審批時(shí)間是美國(guó)的兩倍,。此外,，還數(shù)次曝出丑聞：因?yàn)橐粯顿V賂案子，葛蘭素史克兩年前向中國(guó)繳納了4.9億美元罰款,。美國(guó)監(jiān)管機(jī)構(gòu)指控諾華為了增加銷售額向中國(guó)醫(yī)務(wù)人員行賄，公司在今年3月為此支付了2,500萬美元,。

但有分析師稱,，中國(guó)政府已經(jīng)決定做出一些改革，比如在去年取消了數(shù)百種西方國(guó)家藥品的價(jià)格管制,，政府也投入重金用于藥物研究,。

諾華CEO江慕忠日前與《財(cái)富》雜志談?wù)摿酥袊?guó)在全球藥品開發(fā)中的角色變化，以及中國(guó)是否有創(chuàng)新的能力,。以下是談話摘編,。

The Basel-based company opened a new, $1 billion research and development campus in Shanghai today. With two other R&D centers in Cambridge, Mass., and Basel, Switzerland, it marks the company’s third main hub for drug research.

Novartis’s bet reflects the new role the Chinese could play in discovering life-changing drugs. Ten years ago, companies like Novartis ?NVS?-0.39%? were attracted to China because scientist salaries were just a tenth of those in the U.S. Now, with China’s ascendant middle class spending more on healthcare and the country producing more scientists than anywhere, global drug giants are forced to invest heavily in China despite the challenges.

Those challenges include government pressure on drug prices. In China, prescriptions drugs drive around 40% of total healthcare spending compared to 15% in the U.S., so the government has preferred generics to cut costs.

China also lags the world in drug discovery and suffers regulatory hurdles like a slow registration process for new drugs (drug approval in China takes twice the time as in the U.S.). There are scandals as well: GlaxoSmithKline paid a $490 million fine to settle a bribery case in China two years ago, while Novartis settled with the S.E.C. for $25 million in March in a case in which U.S. regulators alleged it paid bribes to Chinese healthcare workers to drive sales.

But analysts say the Chinese government is determined to change its reputation as place of little innovation. Last year, for instance, price controls were lifted on hundreds of Western drugs and the government is spending heavily on research.

Novartis CEO Joe Jimenez sat down withFortune yesterday to talk about China’s changing role in the global pharmaceutical game and whether the country can really innovate. The following conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

為何選在中國(guó)設(shè)立大型研發(fā)中心？

中國(guó)堅(jiān)定發(fā)展本國(guó)的制藥行業(yè),，每年在研發(fā)上的投入達(dá)200億美元,，僅次于美國(guó)。這樣的投入已經(jīng)持續(xù)好些年了,。至少在過去5年是如此,。中國(guó)一年培養(yǎng)3萬個(gè)科學(xué)和工程博士，遠(yuǎn)超美國(guó)和歐洲,；中國(guó)每年的科學(xué),、理工和數(shù)學(xué)專業(yè)大學(xué)畢業(yè)生有250萬人，是美國(guó)的5倍。

這個(gè)國(guó)家的人才呈現(xiàn)爆炸式增長(zhǎng),。諾華要到有人才的地方去,，因?yàn)槲覀冎溃腿麪栆酝獾目茖W(xué)家和醫(yī)生不一定想來巴塞爾,。

我們視這座中心為真正的全球化研發(fā)中心,。我們完全在中國(guó)研發(fā)的第一種藥很快就會(huì)走進(jìn)醫(yī)院。它是治療肝纖維化的藥物,，將行銷全球,。

中國(guó)人的創(chuàng)新對(duì)于新藥的發(fā)現(xiàn)起到了什么特殊的作用？

以前在某些領(lǐng)域,，中國(guó)人沒有表現(xiàn)出創(chuàng)新能力,。而現(xiàn)在，情況明顯在發(fā)生變化,。我覺得一個(gè)原因是出現(xiàn)了新的科技,，還出現(xiàn)了諾華這樣的用研發(fā)新藥的路子來培訓(xùn)中國(guó)科學(xué)家的公司。

至少在制藥行業(yè),，遲早有一天,，中國(guó)會(huì)經(jīng)常做出突破性的創(chuàng)新。我對(duì)此堅(jiān)信不疑,，因?yàn)橹袊?guó)政府正在為此投入資源,。我不認(rèn)為，在中國(guó)人的本性里面,，有什么東西會(huì)妨礙他們創(chuàng)新,。我相信，中國(guó)人正在學(xué)會(huì)如何發(fā)現(xiàn)重大藥物,。

在藥品研發(fā)方,，中國(guó)比西方如何？

中國(guó)還處于早期,，拿棒球賽來說,，它現(xiàn)在處于第三局。

10年前呢,？

第一局,。或者還在練習(xí)擊球,。

我覺得,，你會(huì)在10年內(nèi)看到巨大變化。我們建的這座研發(fā)中心是打算使用 20年的,。這個(gè)國(guó)家的醫(yī)療業(yè)會(huì)持續(xù)增長(zhǎng),，因?yàn)樗霓r(nóng)村人口正在進(jìn)入中產(chǎn)階級(jí)。不管什么國(guó)家，如果中產(chǎn)階級(jí)在增長(zhǎng),，對(duì)醫(yī)療的需求就會(huì)增長(zhǎng),。所以，中國(guó)會(huì)一直增長(zhǎng)下去,。由于中國(guó)在拼命培訓(xùn)這么多博士,，它肯定會(huì)成為藥物研發(fā)的溫床。當(dāng)然不是在明天,，而是在較長(zhǎng)的一段時(shí)期以后,。

在過去10年，諾華對(duì)中國(guó)的看法有什么變化嗎,？

10年前,，中國(guó)只有我們的前20大市場(chǎng)之一。現(xiàn)在,，它進(jìn)了前10名,。用不了幾名，它就會(huì)成為第二名或第三名,。

如今,，每個(gè)中國(guó)人，無論居住在城市還農(nóng)村,，都能享受到基本水平的藥品報(bào)銷,。這是一個(gè)巨大的變化，是能讓行業(yè)在中國(guó)的增長(zhǎng)實(shí)現(xiàn)兩位數(shù)的一件事?，F(xiàn)在,，我們假定增長(zhǎng)在5%左右，可就是這個(gè)增長(zhǎng)率也比美國(guó)和歐洲高得多,。

中國(guó)在未來很多年都會(huì)是重要的市場(chǎng)，它會(huì)經(jīng)歷周期,，會(huì)有好年份和壞年份,。但它肯定會(huì)給我們這樣的公司帶來大幅增長(zhǎng)。

可最近一個(gè)第四財(cái)務(wù)季度,，諾華的中國(guó)業(yè)務(wù)只增長(zhǎng)了5%，怎么回事,？

一位數(shù)增長(zhǎng)將是中國(guó)的新常態(tài),。過去5年，我們經(jīng)常出現(xiàn)11%或12%的增長(zhǎng),。經(jīng)濟(jì)放緩造成了增長(zhǎng)率下降,，因?yàn)樵谥袊?guó)，很多藥還是得患者自掏腰包。但我們要說,，和美國(guó)的1%到2%或歐洲的1%相比,，這樣的增長(zhǎng)還是相當(dāng)不錯(cuò)的。

中國(guó)政府最近致力于削減醫(yī)藥費(fèi)用,。這是否給諾華帶來壓力,？

中國(guó)政府竭力擴(kuò)大看病報(bào)銷的覆蓋地區(qū)。不只有藥品,，而是整個(gè)醫(yī)療體制,。

所以，當(dāng)?shù)胤秸疄榱四撤N特殊藥品而招標(biāo)或是為了壓低價(jià)格采用落價(jià)時(shí)拍賣時(shí),，競(jìng)標(biāo)變得更加激烈,。即便有這樣的價(jià)格壓力，即便經(jīng)濟(jì)放緩,，你還能實(shí)現(xiàn)這樣的一位數(shù)增長(zhǎng),，已經(jīng)相當(dāng)不錯(cuò)了。

那么,，價(jià)格壓力和低增長(zhǎng)決定了中國(guó)業(yè)務(wù)的未來嗎,？

到處都是新常態(tài)，制藥行業(yè)現(xiàn)在也不例外,。在這種形勢(shì)下,，你最好能創(chuàng)新。因?yàn)?，只要你能?chuàng)新,，給市場(chǎng)帶來了突破性的新藥，消費(fèi)者就會(huì)埋單,。 （財(cái)富中文網(wǎng)）

譯者：天逸

Why open a big R&D center in China?

The country has made a commitment to build a domestic pharmaceutical industry. So they’re spending about $200 billion a year on research and development, second only to the U.S. and this has been going on for a number of years. At least the last five. They churn out 30,000 Ph.D.s a year in science and engineering. Far more than the U.S. or Europe. We see about 2.5 million graduates a year in the STEM fields, which is five times the U.S.

What’s happened is there’s been an explosion of talent in China. At Novartis, we build where the talent is because we know that scientists and physicians don’t necessarily want to move to Basel if they’re not from there.

We’re treating this as a truly global R&D center. The first drug for us that was fully discovered in China is about to enter into the clinic. It’s a drug for liver fibrosis. And that’s going to be a global drug.

Can Chinese innovation make a difference in discovering new drugs?

The Chinese historically have not been proven innovators in certain areas. If you look at what’s happening now, it’s changing. I think partly because of the flood of new technologies that are emerging, and companies like Novartis that are training Chinese scientists in the way that we discover drugs.

At least in the pharmaceutical industry, there will come a time when breakthrough innovation occurs in China on a regular basis. I’m convinced of that only because the government has put the resources there to make it happen. I don’t think there’s anything innate in the Chinese that would prevent them from innovating. I think part of it is being trained in how great drug discovery takes place.

How does China compare to the West in terms of drug discovery?

Well it’s still early. If it were a baseball game, it would be the third inning.

How about 10 years ago?

The first inning, or batting practice.

And I think in 10 years you’re going to see a big change. This R&D center that we’ve built is a 20-year commitment. This is a country that is going to continue to grow in healthcare because you’ve got a rural population that is moving into the middle class. In any country, when the middle class grows, demand for health care increases. So this is going to continue to be a place of growth as a country. Because they are so committed to churning out these Ph.D.s, this is going to become a hotbed for pharma R&D. Not tomorrow, but in the long-term.

How has Novartis’s thinking about China changed in the past 10 years?

Ten years ago this country was only in our top 20 markets. Today’s it’s in our top 10. In a short number of years it’s going to be number two or number three.

Today, every Chinese person, whether rural or urban, has at least some basic level of pharmaceutical reimbursement. And that’s a huge change. That’s one of things that lead to a growth rate that used to be double-digits in China. Now we’re assuming it’s going to be mid-single digits. But that’s still significantly higher than in Europe or the U.S.

This is going to be a big market for many years to come. It’s going to go through cycles. You’ll see good years and bad years. But this is going to drive a lot of growth for companies like ours.

In Novartis’s latest fourth quarter, growth was just 5% in China. Why?

Single-digit growth is going to be the new normal in China. We had consistently seen 11% or 12% growth five or six years ago. The economic slowdown has led to a slowing because a lot of pharmaceuticals in China are still paid out-of-pocket. But we’re saying look, when you compare to U.S.’s 1% to 2% growth or Europe’s 1%, it’s pretty good.

The government has recently worked to reduce drug costs. Does that pressure Novartis?

The Chinese government is trying to make their reimbursement bills stretch as far as they can. It’s not just the pharmaceuticals but the whole healthcare system in China.

So tendering becomes more intense when local provinces will tender for a particular type of drug, or use reverse auctions to try to drive the prices down. Even with all that pricing pressure and with the slowdown of the economy, you still see this single-digit growth, so it’s still pretty good.

So pricing pressures and lower growth will define China in the future?

It’s the new normal everywhere. This is part of the pharmaceutical industry now. In situation like that, you’d better be innovating. Because if you’re innovating and bringing new drugs to market that really are breakthroughs, they’re going to get reimbursed.