Jim Collins: Now in some cases, it might just be simply like, when William McKnight was building 3M, don't you just think that solving problems with innovation is just cool? If you would have just sat down and said, how is that going to transform the world? He would say, I have no idea, all I know is that we could make this amount of money that doesn't involve our creativity, or this amount of money using our creativity. We just think that using the creativity is really cool. So, that's what we're going to do. If we could make more money in uncreative ways, we wouldn't want to do it. Because creativity is what it's about.
You go to folks at Nike and are they out to transform the way the world works? No, they just are really turned on by competing and winning. And when they come from athletic backgrounds, and they love to crush competitors, and feel the joy of winning, that's not necessarily transforming the world, but it is very purposeful.
Then you have other companies like, Sony, in its early days. Here they started out in a bombed out building, 1945. Akio Morita and Masaru Ibuka, came of age when Japan was on its back. Devastated, humiliated, and they said, our purpose is ultimately to change the image of Japanese products around the world as being of poor quality. And to elevate the Japanese national culture and status. And they were talking about this in a bombed out building in downtown Tokyo in 1945. Sure they initially made products like the rice cooker. Whatever. But, in a broader sense, theirs was a higher purpose related very much to their nation.
And some cases you take say, Avon, Andrea Jung talks about what Avon is about. Avon for her is not about cosmetics, Avon, is about opportunity for women around the world, in places where they might not have entrepreneurial opportunities. And now they have a chance to have a sense of self-sufficiency and to feel better about themselves.
Or, you take somebody like, even the building of the Marriott, a simple hotel chain, which started out in the restaurant business. Go all the way back to the early days of it... Willard Marriott, talking about what it was about, said, "Come to think of it, what's it really about is helping people who are away from home feel like they're among friends when they want it. We did that in restaurants and then we did it in hotels."
So, the idea is, sometimes it might be a very long shot that we're going to change the face of the way we deal with our environment, or rock climbing or whatever else we do.
And we're going to pioneer organic cotton to prove it can be done. And then you got someone like Sony elevating the Japanese national status. And then you got Nike, crushing competitors and that's what it's really about. If we could make more money without winning, we wouldn't do it, because we like to win. And for other people, it's unleashing their creativity.
So the point is though, that in all of these cases in whatever it is, they had something, if you would have said to them, (they would have answered that) well, kind of that's what we're all about.
To the question of: "Is it just about maximizing shareholder value?" They would have said: "Is that really what gets me, provides any sense of meaning to my life, compared to crushing competitors?" It Or, providing an opportunity for women in some way around the world. Elevating the Japanese national stature, or simply doing real cool creative things.
I do not believe that, Steve Jobs is just about maximizing shareholder wealth, I just don't believe it.
And so, that's very powerful if you have it and it's very authentic, and it can be very enduring for your company.
Because it's like a star on the horizon and no matter what mountains you climb, you've got that star to look back to.
Now, a company that might have had it, so there's a long preamble to that, it's important.
One of my favorite examples of this is Nucor; now their purpose wasn't to make the world a better place through steel. What it really was, was that Ken Iverson, had a visceral hatred of hierarchy and of treating people in a managerial class in a way superior to that of the working classes.
He just thought that this was wrong. He hated it, he felt it was demeaning to people, he felt it destroyed people, so when he began building his little division at Nucor, it was called the ball craft division.
He started creating this culture and it was an all around, in an egalitarian sense, we're all in this together, we all share in this, and by the way if we have a bad year, managers are going to do worst. We're going to remove as many class distinctions as possible. And it was this very interesting, almost 'all in it together' meets capitalism, sort of feeling. It grew out of Iverson's sense of outrage at the demeaning way in which working class people were treated. So, Iverson was going to create something separate then, but it was just his division, and the rest of the company didn't have this at all.
It was in doing all these things, radio isotopes things and whatever else, that the company was going bankrupt, so the Board turns and just says, who's doing well? Ken Iverson is down there running this very successful division and they go: "Ken, you?" "You're CEO."
So, they throw him into the CEO role and what does he do, he brings that sense of outrage, and that sense of egalitarianism, which is really that productive egalitarianism that would end up winning.
And he fusses it into the whole company and today, that was 1965, so 35 years later, they have not had an unprofitable year in the steel business from that time, which is remarkable.
They became the number one, most profitable steel company in America, starting from the base of this disaster. And they have never lost that egalitarian spirit, which came to life in a lot of different ways.
And what he did was he brought that and it became the basis that transformed the culture. It was not there before; the company was founded in 1920- something. It went all the way to 1965 without having it and Iverson put it in and since then, it's been one of the greats.
One of the great success stories in America in an industry that we largely haven't done well in. Is another way of stating it that, if the highest purpose or the sole purpose of the management philosophy of a company is profit and cash flow, they're going to be consigned to mediocrity or, perhaps goodness but never get beyond that?
I think what you have to have is, what Jerry Porras and I described as genius in the end, these people are relentless in each of their specific cases.
David Packard, he was very clear that Hip's fundamental role should be to make some technical contributions that somehow would make things work better. And if it wasn't a technical contribution, HP shouldn't do it, period. And he had a number of other things that later became HP hallmarks.
But, if you have to look at David Packard's sort of view of things, he would say, oh, and by the way, we also have an enormously profitable, high cash flow business because we're not going to have debt. And we have to fund from our cash flow because we do not want to be beholden to our debt holders.
So, you put these two together and say, which one was Hewlett Packard? And if inventory started to get bloated, he'd come down on you. And there's this one amazing story, where there this guy who ran an HP division, who later went off and ran another company, this person ended up in the hospital (he had gotten in a car crash) and Packard calls him up and says, don't worry we'll take care of you, we'll take care of your family, it was sort of the benevolent side of David Packard and very much part of the HP way.
Well, this same person was giving a presentation about why they weren't quite yet number one in a particular area of their business. And Packard just stood up and said very directly, you will find a way to be number one in this business, with at least a 10% profit, with robust cash flow, or I will put somebody in the seat who can.
So know if you were to ask, which is David Packard? Well, he was absolutely both right up to the end. This idea that somehow, as Peter Drucker liked to put it, and I've always loved this phrase. "Good intentions are no excuse for incompetence."
If it's only just making money that will never make a great company, an enduring company. It can produce some success in the short term. Also, if there's only just the purpose but no hard nosed results, you're also not going to be a great company. It's when you can put those two together, that you have something that is very, very hard to beat and very durable.
Then, going back to the Nucor case, the egalitarian, yes, and by the way, they have not missed being profitable every single year. No one's done that in the steel business, but they have. |
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吉姆·柯林斯：有時(shí)候這個(gè)道理顯而易見(jiàn),，回到威廉?麥克奈特建立3M公司的時(shí)代,，你不覺(jué)得（像他這樣）用創(chuàng)新思維來(lái)解決問(wèn)題很酷嗎？如果問(wèn)他,，你這樣做將如何改變世界,？他會(huì)說(shuō)：我不知道，我只知道,，如果不創(chuàng)新我們可以賺這么多錢(qián),，而在創(chuàng)新之下,，我們可以賺那么多錢(qián)。我們只是覺(jué)得發(fā)揮創(chuàng)造力是很酷的事,。所以這就是我們未來(lái)的方向,。用陳舊的方法即便賺到更多的錢(qián)，我們也不會(huì)那樣去做,。因?yàn)槲覀冃枰木褪莿?chuàng)造力,。
你問(wèn)耐克（Nike）的員工，他們是要改變世界嗎,？不,，他們會(huì)說(shuō)只是喜歡競(jìng)爭(zhēng)和贏的感覺(jué)。如果他們有運(yùn)動(dòng)員的背景,，喜歡擊敗對(duì)手,，享受勝利的喜悅，那么他們未必是在改變世界,，但是仍然有他們明確的目標(biāo),。
還有早期的索尼（Sony）公司。1945年,，這些公司在廢墟上建立,。當(dāng)年日本整個(gè)國(guó)家處于低谷之時(shí)，盛田昭夫（Akio Morita）和井深大（Masaru Ibuka）正值當(dāng)年,。 日本國(guó)土滿目瘡痍,、國(guó)民飽受侮辱，他們說(shuō)：“我們的目的就是要徹底改變?nèi)毡井a(chǎn)品質(zhì)量差的國(guó)際形象,?！睆亩嵘毡镜拿褡逦幕偷匚弧?945年,，他們?cè)跂|京市區(qū)一幢被炸彈夷平的樓房廢墟里談?wù)撝@些話題,。當(dāng)然隨后，他們?cè)谧畛醯碾A段只是制造電飯煲之類(lèi)的家電用品,。然而,，從更廣的意義上看，他們擁有的是與民族利益相關(guān)的崇高目標(biāo),。
還有其他案例,，比如雅芳（Avon）。鐘彬嫻（Andrea Jung）是這么講述雅芳的：雅芳對(duì)她來(lái)說(shuō)不是化妝品,，而是給全世界的女性帶來(lái)機(jī)遇， 在許多地方,，女性沒(méi)有創(chuàng)業(yè)的機(jī)會(huì)?，F(xiàn)在她們有機(jī)會(huì)自力更生,，活得更自信。
萬(wàn)豪酒店（Marriott）也是一個(gè)例子,。萬(wàn)豪其實(shí)就是連鎖酒店,，最開(kāi)始靠餐廳起家。我們回顧一下它的早期歷史……威拉德?萬(wàn)豪（Willard Marriott）在談到萬(wàn)豪酒店時(shí)說(shuō)：“想想吧,，萬(wàn)豪的意義在于讓身處異鄉(xiāng)的人們?cè)谛枰臅r(shí)候感覺(jué)到朋友就在身邊,。我們開(kāi)餐廳時(shí)這樣，做酒店也一樣,?！?br/>
也就是說(shuō)，我們改變環(huán)境是要冒風(fēng)險(xiǎn)的,，不管是攀巖還是其他事情,。
我們要做有機(jī)棉的先鋒，證明其完全可行,。我們看到索尼正在提升日本的國(guó)家地位,。之后又看到了耐克如何讓幾乎所有競(jìng)爭(zhēng)對(duì)手臣服。此言不虛,。如果在不去征服對(duì)手的情況下賺點(diǎn)錢(qián),，我們是不會(huì)感興趣的。因?yàn)槲覀兿矚g贏的感覺(jué),。同時(shí),，對(duì)其他人來(lái)說(shuō)，這樣（的態(tài)度）可以讓他們釋放自身的創(chuàng)造力,。
所以,，我想說(shuō)的是，在所有這些案例中,，他們都有一些更高的目標(biāo),，如果你問(wèn)他們，（他們會(huì)說(shuō)）這就是我們所追求的,。
面對(duì)“你是否只追求股東價(jià)值最大化”這個(gè)問(wèn)題,。他們會(huì)說(shuō)：“和擊敗競(jìng)爭(zhēng)者相比，這并不能令我著迷,，并不能給我的生活帶來(lái)更多意義,。”相比之下,，我們更向往用某種方式為全世界的女性提供機(jī)會(huì)（意指雅芳）,；更愿意幫助提升日本的國(guó)家地位，或是做些更有創(chuàng)造性的,、更酷的事,。
我不相信史蒂夫?喬布斯（Steve Jobs）僅僅是為了股東價(jià)值最大化,，我決不相信。
所以這種力量很強(qiáng)大,，也很真實(shí),，對(duì)公司來(lái)說(shuō)是非常持久的動(dòng)力。
因?yàn)樗拖竦仄骄€上的星辰,，無(wú)論你攀登哪座山峰,，都能夠回望到那顆星。
一家公司可能曾經(jīng)擁有過(guò)這種高尚的目標(biāo),，而這一切背后有著很深的淵源,，這非常重要。
我最?lèi)?ài)舉的一個(gè)例子就是紐克鋼鐵（Nucor）,；他們的目標(biāo)不是通過(guò)生產(chǎn)鋼鐵讓世界變得更好,。真正的原因是肯?埃弗森（Ken Iverson）對(duì)等級(jí)制度深?lèi)和唇^，憎恨管理層用高高在上的方式對(duì)待工人階級(jí),。
他認(rèn)為這就是錯(cuò)的,。他憎恨這樣的態(tài)度，覺(jué)得這是一種侮辱,，這是對(duì)人性的摧毀,，所以當(dāng)他在紐克內(nèi)部組建自己的部門(mén)時(shí)，將其取名為制球部門(mén),。
他開(kāi)始創(chuàng)造這種球形文化,，表達(dá)全面平等的文化。我們?cè)谕粭l船上,，有福同享,，有難同當(dāng)。要是哪年業(yè)績(jī)不好,，經(jīng)理受到的負(fù)面影響最大,。我們要盡力消除一切階級(jí)差別。這是一種耐人尋味的情感,，他們用“風(fēng)雨同舟”的態(tài)度挑戰(zhàn)了資本主義,。這種情感源于埃弗森的最初的憤怒，他為工人階級(jí)遭受恥辱待遇感到忿忿不平,。所以埃弗森才要建立一個(gè)不一樣的部門(mén),，但這僅限于他自己的那個(gè)部門(mén)，公司其余的部門(mén)依然等級(jí)森嚴(yán),。
紐克同時(shí)也做放射性同位素等其它業(yè)務(wù),，結(jié)果瀕臨破產(chǎn)。當(dāng)時(shí)董事會(huì)想看看哪個(gè)部門(mén)的業(yè)績(jī)更好，發(fā)現(xiàn)肯?埃弗森的部門(mén)做得有聲有色,，非常成功,。他們便對(duì)肯說(shuō)：“現(xiàn)在你就是CEO了?！?br/>
他們把他推到了CEO的位置上，他接下來(lái)怎么做呢,？他繼續(xù)推行由憤怒而生的平等意識(shí),，而正是這份催生生產(chǎn)力的平等意識(shí)最終助他獲得了成功。
他將這種平等意識(shí)融入整個(gè)公司文化,。當(dāng)年是1965年,，如今已過(guò)去35年。自那時(shí)起,，該公司沒(méi)有一年是不盈利的,，這對(duì)鋼鐵企業(yè)來(lái)說(shuō)是驚人的業(yè)績(jī)。
他們從災(zāi)難性的起點(diǎn)出發(fā),，成為美國(guó)排名第一,、盈利能力最強(qiáng)的鋼鐵公司。他們從未失去那份平等的精神,，并以各種方式加以體現(xiàn),。
是他（埃弗森）引入了這種精神，并以此為基礎(chǔ)徹底改變了公司文化,。而該公司之前并沒(méi)有這種精神,；紐克成立于20世紀(jì)20年代。直到1965年之前,，他們一直沒(méi)有這種精神,。是埃弗森為公司注入了這種精神。自那之后,，紐克就成了偉大的公司之一,。
美國(guó)的鋼鐵企業(yè)通常并不成功。這是否從另一個(gè)角度說(shuō)明了：如果一家公司管理思想中的最高目標(biāo)或唯一目標(biāo)僅僅是利潤(rùn)和現(xiàn)金流,，那么就只能是一家平庸或至多是一家優(yōu)秀的公司,，而永遠(yuǎn)不可能成為卓越的公司？
我認(rèn)為你必須擁有杰里?波拉斯（Jerry Porras）和我稱之為位于“末梢的天才們”,，這些人在各自的領(lǐng)域至臻至善,。
大衛(wèi)?帕卡德（David Packard）非常清楚，惠普最根本的職責(zé)是在技術(shù)上做出貢獻(xiàn),，讓產(chǎn)品運(yùn)轉(zhuǎn)得更好,。如果不能在技術(shù)上做出貢獻(xiàn)，惠普就不應(yīng)該去做，這無(wú)須多言,。他的許多其他特質(zhì)后來(lái)也成了惠普的標(biāo)志,。
但是，如果你聽(tīng)取帕卡德講述他的觀點(diǎn),，他會(huì)說(shuō),，他們的企業(yè)也有很高的利潤(rùn)和現(xiàn)金流，因?yàn)槲覀儾辉敢庳?fù)債,。我們要從現(xiàn)金流中獲得資金,，因?yàn)槲覀儾幌胙鰝鶆?wù)人之鼻息。
把這兩點(diǎn)放在一起看,，哪個(gè)才是惠普（的文化）呢,？一方面，如果庫(kù)存積壓,，他會(huì)來(lái)責(zé)備你,。同時(shí)也有這么一個(gè)令人吃驚的故事，有一個(gè)惠普的部門(mén)負(fù)責(zé)人辭職開(kāi)了另一家公司,，這個(gè)人（遭遇車(chē)禍）住進(jìn)了醫(yī)院,，帕卡德打電話給他說(shuō)：“別擔(dān)心，我們會(huì)照顧你,，照顧你的家人,。”這同時(shí)是帕卡德仁慈善良的一面,，惠普的處事方式也大致如此,。
好了，還是這個(gè)人（指惠普的部門(mén)負(fù)責(zé)人）,，在做一個(gè)演講,，講為什么惠普在某個(gè)特定領(lǐng)域的業(yè)務(wù)中沒(méi)有做到第一。此時(shí)帕卡德馬上站起來(lái),，非常直接地說(shuō),，你必須想辦法在這一業(yè)務(wù)上做到第一，要有不低于10%的利潤(rùn)和強(qiáng)勁的現(xiàn)金流,，否則我就讓更有能力的人頂替你,。
所以，如果你問(wèn)：究竟哪個(gè)是大衛(wèi)?帕卡德呢,？他兩者都是,，而且都表現(xiàn)得很徹底。我一直非常喜歡彼得?德魯克說(shuō)過(guò)的一句話：“良好的意圖并不是無(wú)能的借口,?！?br/>
（一方面,，）如果只是為了賺錢(qián)，永遠(yuǎn)都不會(huì)有卓越和長(zhǎng)久的公司,?；蛟S在短期會(huì)獲得一些成功。但是如果只有目的,，而沒(méi)有實(shí)際結(jié)果,，也不可能成為卓越的公司。只有將兩者結(jié)合,，才能使公司屹立不倒,、經(jīng)久不衰。
再回到紐克鋼鐵的例子,，它一方面擁有平等的精神，而同時(shí)公司沒(méi)有一年是不盈利的,。沒(méi)有其他的鋼鐵企業(yè)做到這一點(diǎn),，他們卻做到了。 |
